The Loose Association of Wargamers

I can remember having an exchange of Emails with Stonewall when the recasting thing broke. They claimed they hadn't done anything wrong and were astounded at the "unfair" backlash. There were lots of reports of them selling the recasts painted, in order to cover up that that's what they were and they had a habit of "creating" new figures by using bits from ones that they didn't have the rights to!

Which rather begs the question of why he's still in business and why trade shows are giving him house room.

Paul wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 12:23 pm I can remember having an exchange of Emails with Stonewall when the recasting thing broke. They claimed they hadn't done anything wrong and were astounded at the "unfair" backlash. There were lots of reports of them selling the recasts painted, in order to cover up that that's what they were and they had a habit of "creating" new figures by using bits from ones that they didn't have the rights to!

Yup. We caught him red-handed at Colours, selling large bags of painted but incredibly badly-cast AB cavalry that nobody had sold him. He claimed to have bought up stock from another trader, but that trader didn't support his story. At the same time he was caught not only pirating FAA WW2 figures, but also forging the FAA pack-labels in a weak attempt to make them look genuine. A number of other manufacturers have been most surprised to find him selling large quantities of their products years after he bought any stock from them.

And then there's the whole Xan issue, where the Spanish courts have repeatedly found in Xan's favour against Stonewall and Capitan. Those court-rulings were also applicable in the UK under EU law and are still applicable following Brexit, as those laws were passed into UK law and the judgements were pre-Brexit, but UK Trading Standards are frankly useless when it comes to supporting small businesses.

bangorstu wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 12:28 pm Which rather begs the question of why he's still in business and why trade shows are giving him house room.

Indeed.

Sounds like someone needs to apply the legal doctrine of "self-help". Any employment of a Morris 30cwt starting handle in achieving this is entirely optional.

Just saying.

If another company has a legal right to the IP of the figures he is pirating and even a legal judgement, would there be a basis there for employing bailiffs to seize his stock at his premises or a wargames show?
It could be very public, very embarrassing for everyone involved and deter shows from allowing him to attend?

Well this is a shame. Thought it seemed too good to be ligit. Assumed there were some Ladyboys busy painting figures in a cellar somewhere.

Technically I think the term is "Counterfeit" rather than piracy and as I understand it, from a quick search and read, Stonewall are required by law to give the counterfeit goods to the IP owner, make good any financial losses to everyone involved, including unwitting buyers and destroy their means to make further counterfeits...IF there has been a legal judgement against them?
Official figures show that companies in the UK have seen 22% losses of trade due to counterfeit goods in recent years! To a wargames company that makes a huge difference between survival and going under

Paul wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:21 pm If another company has a legal right to the IP of the figures he is pirating and even a legal judgement, would there be a basis there for employing bailiffs to seize his stock at his premises or a wargames show?
It could be very public, very embarrassing for everyone involved and deter shows from allowing him to attend?

It's all about money. I've spoken to Tony Barton at length about it and he simply didn't have the money to pursue it at the time. Trading Standards weren't interested and viewed it as a civil/commercial matter rather than a criminal one. However, Stonewall seem to have stayed away from AB since (and FAA), so the message seems to have worked. Other cases have cropped up much more recently though and the Xan case is ongoing. I understand that Xan's union are carrying the case forward, so that will clearly help with regard to legal funding.

tim.w wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:28 pm Well this is a shame. Thought it seemed too good to be ligit. Assumed there were some Ladyboys busy painting figures in a cellar somewhere.

Yeah I know. It's putting good, honest slavers and sweat-shop owners out of business.