SYW Austrian limber riders

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ochoin
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SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by ochoin » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Uniforms?....I think I've been doing them incorrectly.

They're civilians, right? But uniformed. I've painted a few in the reddish brown coat with red cuffs of the Austrian artilleryman.
I've stumbled across some who look like wearing beige(?) coats with yellow cuffs.

Kronoskaf, unusually, don't seem to help here.

donald

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by RMD » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:15 pm

I never do limbers, so I've no idea there, sorry. Have you got the relevant Ospreys and Duffies? If not, I can have a look later.

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by Peeler » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:09 pm

I'm done some in the distant past with brown coats, red cuffs, not sure if that helps though. Can't remember where I got the idea from.

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by ochoin » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:50 pm

Peeler wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:09 pm
I'm done some in the distant past with brown coats, red cuffs, not sure if that helps though. Can't remember where I got the idea from.
Yeah, that's what I've been doing but I saw this (wargaming) photo with them in beige & yellow.

Curse of the Wargamer: you see another gamer's figures on an obscure topic & take them for gospel; ignoring the fact he/she has incipient colour blindness.

cheers donald

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by Etranger » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 pm

Summerfield has artillerymen in pearl-gray uniforms in 1740, with the brown uniforms introduced 'later'. ( No date given, but before the SYW given the dates of coloured prints from the era). Lapels and cuffs were described as orange-red. Artillerymen were supplemented by 'handlanger', infantry drafts, presumably in infantry uniform; until 1758 when the Artillerie Fusilier Regiment appeared, supplanting them. These wore the artillery uniform except for infantry pattern gaiters.

As far as drivers & horses go, they were requisitioned in war into the Ross-partie, with additional civilian wagons and drivers as required, suggesting a mix of uniforms and civilian clothing would be suitable. Duffy says much the same.

I think the 'beige' coats are just faded brown coats, based on some of the prints around.

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by ochoin » Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:31 am

Etranger wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:31 pm
Summerfield has artillerymen in pearl-gray uniforms in 1740, with the brown uniforms introduced 'later'. ( No date given, but before the SYW given the dates of coloured prints from the era). Lapels and cuffs were described as orange-red. Artillerymen were supplemented by 'handlanger', infantry drafts, presumably in infantry uniform; until 1758 when the Artillerie Fusilier Regiment appeared, supplanting them. These wore the artillery uniform except for infantry pattern gaiters.

As far as drivers & horses go, they were requisitioned in war into the Ross-partie, with additional civilian wagons and drivers as required, suggesting a mix of uniforms and civilian clothing would be suitable. Duffy says much the same.

I think the 'beige' coats are just faded brown coats, based on some of the prints around.
Thanks muchly. I'd never thought of fading.

donald

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by Etranger » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:33 am

Checking Kronoskaf, it looks like they've used the same data as Duffy did.

Looking for 'beige artillery uniforms' I did find this.
Image

The caption is 'German Artillery Corps, 1765'. However the book from which this is lifted isn't acknowledged. It could be "German" meaning Austrian, rather than Hungarian, or it could refer to one of the Freikorps & small state contingents serving in the Reichsarmee. Or it could just be wrong!

Image
One version of the Pearl-gray uniform.
The artillery arm of the Austrian Army was one of the most efficient in Europe. Artillerymen everywhere were treated as specialists or artisans and generally received better pay and conditions. The gunner shown in the foreground is wearing a coat of better materials that that of the common soldier. The color of the coat was officially described as ‘wolf’ grey which was a darker shade than that of the infantry. Instead of becoming white, it would evolve into brown. The two figures in the background show a matross, or workman whose job was to help make the gun emplacement, and a driver who is likely to have worn civilian clothes.

Image
The same artists interpretation of the later uniform.
This plate shows the Hapsburg artillery in the color scheme it retained for the rest of its existence until 1918. The brown coat with red cuffs were adopted in about 1739 and , for a time was much lighter in shade than it would become in later years. It was interestingly described as ‘wolf grey’ for many years after it had become brown. There were two distinctive sections of the artillery at this time; the German Artillery and the Netherlands Artillery and the former wore plain coats while the latter had red lapels. It is a Master Gunner of the Netherlands Artillery depicted in the foreground of this plate. The figure in the background is a fusilier of the German regiment. Later in Maria Theresa’s reign these uniforms became grey.

Both originally from http://www.uniformology.com/WORLD-07-OTT.html Note that the artist was not contemporary (working in the second half of the 19th century) & the descriptions above don't always match other sources.

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Re: SYW Austrian limber riders

Post by RMD » Sat Nov 14, 2020 6:36 am

Yes, as has already been said, artillery drivers were still very much civvy contractors until the 1770s. They would be led by the Artillery 'Horse Parties', who had a very small peacetime cadre, but in wartime would form 50 companies (who presumably were mostly in civilian dress). I couldn't find it mentioned anywhere, but I'd assume that these 'Horse Parties' were dressed in Artillery uniform.

Re the 'Artillery Brown' - Yes, everyone seems to agree with the 'wolf grey' being a fairly light grey-brown and a lot lighter than the dark coffee-brown already then being used by some of the Grenzer regiments. Austrian artillery uniforms seem to have got steadily darker over 100 years, until the 1840s, when they matched the dark brown of the Grenzer.

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