Just an observation

[ochoin]

Brightly coloured figures look, I guess, a bit "toy soldier-like". I've noticed that the more (for want of a better word) serious collectors use subdued colours. Indeed, a "campaign look" is de rigueur in some quarters.
Interestingly, uniform plates *tend* not to do this, preferring brighter hues.

Being heavily entangled in the ECW at the moment, this has been borne home with many web images of gamer's regiments in beiges & browns. I'm sure as weeks & months of soldiering unfolded, and the uncertainty of re-supply, uniforms did become dirty, tatty & a bit woebegone. However, I still prefer brighter colours. A carmine red coat more than a scarlet one, a flat green more than a lime green, but still, quite bright.

This is in no way a criticism, just, as the title states, an observation.

donald

[Panzer21]

Well.....they are toy soldiers!
I would love to produce some AWI figures that look like Richard Scollin's pictures of Guilford Courthouse, from Military Modelling of years gone by. Tatty, ragged, patched, dirty and unshaven. Errors and all.

I suspect the skills necessary to make it look good and not just a mess is beyond me however.......

Soldiers on campaign probably looked good when parading in new kit for the first time; it went downhill from then on....

Nappy fans have often told me (lectured) on why it's the best period, "because of the uniforms" . When I point out they would mostly be in dysentery stained rags and greatcoats, strangely they don't want to know....
I always quite fancied 'multipurpose Napoleonic infantry " dressed as above....

Like everything else in the hobby, a matter of personal choice.

Neil

[Spanner]

They're your figures, painted by you to achieve the look you want, mate. That's what matters, not what some passing acquaintance wants to see. So go for it, Donald. If you want the Earl of Frothingmouth's Mounted Halberdiers to be mounted on zebras, and wearing trousers and coats to match them, then that's your business. If someone objects then ignore them (or kick 'em in the nads- again your choice, but not recommended at most conventions).

As for the "Campaign Look", a lot of it depends on skill to bring it off, as 21P says. I tried it and ended up with what looked like the survivors of a landslide into a sewer, so they got repainted.

[ochoin]

I'm not all upset, pressured or defensive - it was just an observation.
Modern troops in wargaming are almost invariably in combat dress which I guess corresponds to 'campaign dress'.
Alternatively, I think I'm correct in saying in our hobby, SYW troops are rarely shown in 'campaign dress', which logically can't be correct in reality?
Equally, ancient gaming figures are never (?) shown in rags or dressed in someone's cast-off table cloth?

So my point, if I have one, is despite the actual reality - which is surely a lot less colourful & ordered - how we show our figures depends on period, figures available & inclination? So, of course I will follow my own inclinations.....though i am tempted to dip a unit or two into a sewer to see the result.

donald

[Patrice]

I think I'm correct in saying in our hobby, SYW troops are rarely shown in 'campaign dress', which logically can't be correct in reality?

I don't see what 'campaign dress' in the SYW could be? In the early 18th C. the military fashion was very similar to the civilian one except for facings which had a different colour, and there was still some similarity in the mid-18th C. Some soldiers could wear damaged clothing after some time in campaign but there was no voluntary difference (if you except the F&IW). And some militia units could lack part of the equipment.

ancient gaming figures are never (?) shown in rags or dressed in someone's cast-off table cloth?

Woollen tunics were much more durable than modern cotton... Yes they could be torn but the soldiers would probably have it stitched before it gets worse(?)

[Spanner]

I'm not all upset, pressured or defensive - it was just an observation.
Modern troops in wargaming are almost invariably in combat dress which I guess corresponds to 'campaign dress'.
Alternatively, I think I'm correct in saying in our hobby, SYW troops are rarely shown in 'campaign dress', which logically can't be correct in reality?

There was no real "combat" uniform before the introduction of drab clothing, designed for campaigns, in the latter 19C (eg the khaki adopted by the British). The troops' parade dress, barracks dress and battle dress were essentially the same items, though plumes and other fragile items may have only been added for parades or battle. Fatigue dress items were generally nothing more than a smock and soft cap, and used when doing chores around the lines or camps, but not worn in battle.

Most armies issued the troops two sets of uniforms, and had periodic replacements, so it's probable that the troops wore 2nd best coats, etc, on campaign- unless ordered otherwise. Historical purchase records don't seem to show any battle dress items, which supports the idea battle and parade uniform items were the same. There's some exceptions- for example, Russians allowed the troops (not officers and musicians) to remove the uniform coat in summer, there's the modified for purpose British uniform items from the AWI, and wearing of greatcoats instead of the uniform coat on the march.

Equally, ancient gaming figures are never (?) shown in rags or dressed in someone's cast-off table cloth?

So my point, if I have one, is despite the actual reality - which is surely a lot less colourful & ordered - how we show our figures depends on period, figures available & inclination? So, of course I will follow my own inclinations.....though i am tempted to dip a unit or two into a sewer to see the result.

Definitely all three, though the period will greatly define whether there were "dress" and "campaign" uniforms. Also, our ideas of what the troops wore is based mainly on memoirs, written descriptions and battle paintings. So there's a chance that some sort of ad hoc fighting order may have been worn. As for figure availability, there's several C18 and C19 in fighting order that I know of- ACW gunners and infantry sans coats and just wearing shirts, various AWI British wearing modified coats and hats, "summer dress" SYW Russians, sappers in smocks and caps, and covered shakos and helmets in the Napoleonic period, for example.

Smoke from camp fires, mud and dust mean the uniforms were likely less than pristine after a few days, even though clothes brushes, boot blacking and huswives were a part of the kit in every army. Getting the "worn and used" look, rather than the "monster from the sewers", is the tricky part. At least they are for my limited painting skills.

[Willz the Wargamer]

Just paint them the way you like,

Having spent many a year at sea on a submarine clothes were not in the best condition after several months underwater.
Even wrapping your civy's in double plastic did not stop them smelling like diesel (I served on nuclear subs), sweat, oil
and if you got a locker on the hull, sometimes you had a plastic bag of mould covered rags after several months.
My point being that everything rots in damp conditions add the sun and it bleaches items, clothes, wood, paint.
So uniform colour is subjective depending on where the items have been for several months.


Willz.

[ochoin]

Wargaming ACW troops often look like tattybogles. I wonder if this is because the fairly widespread use of cameras captured how shabby they looked in the field?

Nice point about woollen garments, Patrice. I am currently re-reading the O'Brien opus for the X time & poor Killick, the steward, is constantly cleaning and repairing the broadcloth uniform coats from anything from battle damage to vomit after a banquet. Blood,evidently, unless soaked in cold water fairly quickly, stains.

donald

[Patrice]

Nice point about woollen garments, Patrice. I am currently re-reading the O'Brien opus for the X time & poor Killick, the steward, is constantly cleaning and repairing the broadcloth uniform coats

The same uniform may look very different depending on the situation.

That's me (about 20 years ago) very proud in late 17th C. uniform at Camaret tower (Brittany) in very good health, ready to fight the English landing with my late matchlock musket...



...and me again playing wounded and carried by other French soldiers at an event in Carrickfergus NI in the same historical period and about the same years.
(and it was reenactment, probably not as exact as it should, our wool was a bit too yellow-ish, perhaps)

from anything from battle damage to vomit after a banquet. Blood,evidently, unless soaked in cold water fairly quickly, stains.

Um, one of my favourite sentences when acting medieval or C.1700 in public events was to shout very loud (fully heard of the audience, and voluntarily looking very stupid) was (in French) “if you want to attract women, you must smell of blood and sweat and wine and c*m!“ ...I would not dare play this now...