Tweaking the rules: limbers

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ochoin
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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by ochoin » Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:14 pm

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 2:57 pm
This is one of the least realistic aspects of our collective recreations of black powder warfare. My thoughts are:-

1) . Quite simply, your SYW battles should not involve horse-drawn movement of guns at all, really.

Thanks for your thoughts: valuable stuff.

With regards to your excellent point (quoted), I agree but we not infrequently start games in the manoeuvre phase.
Case in point was Leuthen, where we began with Fred's flank march where some guns were being dragged into position:

Imageor Lobositz where Fred is column of march when he runs into the Austrians:

Image

Our upcoming game of Reichenberg will again see the Austrians deployed but the Prussians moving into position.

Otherwise, guns don't tend to get limbered up after the battle commences.

donald

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by Essex Boy » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:14 am

What I said then?

I so love your armies.

E

ochoin
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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by ochoin » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:00 am

Essex Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:14 am
What I said then?

I so love your armies.

E
Thanks. There's several games waiting you upon a visit to the Antipodes.

BTW post-Napoleonics, I discovered the idea of *not* gluing the artillery piece to the base. Thus, upon limbering up, the gun model only is used. Looks better.

donald

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by Essex Boy » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:18 am

ochoin wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:00 am
Essex Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:14 am
What I said then?

I so love your armies.

E
Thanks. There's several games waiting you upon a visit to the Antipodes.

BTW post-Napoleonics, I discovered the idea of *not* gluing the artillery piece to the base. Thus, upon limbering up, the gun model only is used. Looks better.

donald
A split second after I win either the Lottery or the Premium Bonds I shall be on the tinterweb buying my ticket. And, not wishing to cause any awkwardness, I shall bring with me my innate ability to loose every game I play.

I hope I've misunderstood......you'd have gun models moving about on their own to represent it being limbered?

E

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BaronVonWreckedoften
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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by BaronVonWreckedoften » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:21 am

ochoin wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:14 pm
I agree but we not infrequently start games in the manoeuvre phase. Case in point was Leuthen, where we began with Fred's flank march where some guns were being dragged into position:

Otherwise, guns don't tend to get limbered up after the battle commences.
Sounds like FoG:R where artillery can start the game limbered, but once unlimbered can only move by changing facing by "tweaking" a small amount (1 inch?) to the left or right - essentially, the limbers disappear. To be honest, my readings suggest that all but the lightest artillery had not progressed beyond that 100 years later.

Lovely photos by the way! :thumbs:

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by ochoin » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:21 am

Essex Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:18 am


I hope I've misunderstood......you'd have gun models moving about on their own to represent it being limbered?

E
"Upon limbering up"....limber, riders, horse team & gun. Crew glued to base which is removed for the exercise.

donald

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by grizzlymc » Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:39 pm

By the Wellingtonics wars it was not uncommon for artillery to move on a battlefield. But 50 years earlier, there simply was not the capability (always subject to scenario rules), except for whores arty.

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by Essex Boy » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:16 pm

ochoin wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:21 am
Essex Boy wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:18 am


I hope I've misunderstood......you'd have gun models moving about on their own to represent it being limbered?

E
"Upon limbering up"....limber, riders, horse team & gun. Crew glued to base which is removed for the exercise.

donald
Phew! I thought you'd gone all weird, like.

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by RMD » Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:34 pm

I've always used loose gun models - when limbered up the gun is simply turned to face the rear. That was something that I picked up from the chap who started me wargaming.

Re 18th Century guns - Frederick apparently adopted the horse artillery idea after seeing mounted Russian batteries in action at Kunersdorf. But there isn't any horse artillery establishment in the Russian order of battle, so I've often wondered about that anecdote.

I haven't played 18th Century since the 1990s (I'm hoping to have a game tonight), but in my adaptation of 'Shako' rules, guns start the game limbered and once unlimbered may not be limbered again (unless horse artillery). Battalion guns are abstracted, but light guns may be then manhandled, while heavy guns are stationary.

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Re: Tweaking the rules: limbers

Post by ochoin » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:09 pm

RMD wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:34 pm


Re 18th Century guns - Frederick apparently adopted the horse artillery idea after seeing mounted Russian batteries in action at Kunersdorf. But there isn't any horse artillery establishment in the Russian order of battle, so I've often wondered about that anecdote.
That's interesting. I've read that the Austrians were also experimenting with horse artillery but can't find any other mention of them in OOBs etc.

All in all, HA seems a bit like rockets in the Napoleonic Wars: great idea, gets a lot of attention, achieved little.
I'll admit to having a troop of HA in my SYW Prussian force.

donald

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