The Loose Association of Wargamers

Not to mention that relatively green troops may also perform better than veterans, either because they don't know any better, or because veterans are by definition, survivors, and will not 'fight to the last'.

A classic example being the lacklustre record of several units of Penninsula war veteran units in the Waterloo campaign, they had had a spell of, the war is over, and then dragged back out.

Yep. Also 7th Armoured & 51st Highland in 44/45, although they could be excused for thinking they had done their bit and it was someone else's turn...

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:50 am A classic example being the lacklustre record of several units of Penninsula war veteran units in the Waterloo campaign, they had had a spell of, the war is over, and then dragged back out.

This is a common misconception, on a par with the AWI British Army being proclaimed "the best in the world" by American historians keen to "big up" their boys' achievement. All of the Peninsula units - and certainly the ones not sent to America - had virtually all of their veterans "laid off" by the ever-grateful government, when they got back to Blighty at the end of 1814. Someone produced a thread about this over on PMT a few years back, when it was still relatively sane and PK (pre-Kiley) and included several rosters from infantry and cavalry units. Consequently, (and extremely hurriedly in most cases) the gaps had to be filled with fresh faces when Boney made his comeback tour. The four Guards battalions, for example, all of which had served in the Peninsula for at least three years, had to be brought back up to strength with transfers from the inexperienced home battalions and substantial drafts of equally inexperienced militia; whilst their performances were far from poor, they certainly did not reach the heights of their Peninsula service.

The experiences of the WW2 divisions listed by Shahb, were rather different and more likely a consequence of combat being more intense and prolonged (not to mention deadly) in 1944/45 than it was in 1814/15.

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 10:18 am Yep. Also 7th Armoured & 51st Highland in 44/45, although they could be excused for thinking they had done their bit and it was someone else's turn...

Also initially, badly led from the top.

Fair call on the leadership, but given how they were called on again and again by Montgomery, from the desert to Italy to Normandy and onwards, you can't really blame them for thinking someone else should have a go.

When I clicked on this thread I thought it was going to be about Grizz's classification system for women he's met.
Disappointed.

World2dave wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:10 pm When I clicked on this thread I thought it was going to be about Grizz's classification system for women he's met.
Disappointed.

You and me both

Nah, mine is drilled, undrilled, never to be drilled.

Undrillable? Drill-less. Drill free. Etc.