The Loose Association of Wargamers

tim.w wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:26 pm I always thought the B.A.R very heavy. Have picked a couple up and even unloaded they're quite a weight. I wonder if thats a reason to think of it more as an LMG?

Everything was heavy though, wa'nnit?
All milled steel and hardwood.

The BAR's original raison d'etre was 'walking fire', which was a passing fancy.

After WW1, the US police models with short barrels and pistol grips made viable proto-assault rifles.
The only half-decent LMG version was the Belgian FN modele D because it was the only version with a quick-change barrel.

I reckon the best early self-loaders were non-military: Remington model 8 or Winchester 1907.

I always thought the BAR was a piece of shit compared to the other LMG’s around in WW2

tim.w wrote: ↑Fri Mar 05, 2021 10:26 pm I always thought the B.A.R very heavy. Have picked a couple up and even unloaded they're quite a weight. I wonder if thats a reason to think of it more as an LMG?

Yes, very. From my one (half) magazine of ten rounds, I found the BAR virtually impossible to fire unsupported from the prone position (the one I fired didn't have the ad hoc bipod usually fitted in WW2).

From an LMG point of view it's a piece of shit compared to the Bren, let alone anything belt-fed;

1. Small magazine requiring frequent magazine-changes.

2. No changeable barrel to enable sustained fire beyond a few mags.

3. A bottom-loading mag, which means that the gunner loses the point of aim to allow the No.2 to insert a fresh mag.

4. From a doctrinal point of view, only the BAR gunner and his No.2 were carrying ammo for it. In a Commonwealth section, everyone was carrying Bren mags.

Oh I should add that my Grandad liked the BAR. He had one in his Home Guard section, but that one probably had a bipod and aside from his own personal Thomson it was their only 'light' automatic.

BAR and Thompson. Hell! Was he built like a brick shithouse, or forever on a charge?

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:45 am BAR and Thompson. Hell! Was he built like a brick shithouse, or forever on a charge?

The Home Guard were completely equipped with US smallarms. He (as Cpl) had a Thomson and his section had a BAR plus Springfield rifles. At Platoon level they had an American-made Lewis Gun (chambered for .30) and at company and battalion level they had water-cooled Browning M1919 .30s. Somewhere on YouTube is a film of the Pembrokeshire Home Guard's disbandment parade in 1944, which includes a firepower demonstration on Penally Range (Tenby), showing all the US smallarms, as well as Blacker Bombards and Smith Guns. It's an interesting bit of film and my Grandad and Great-Grandad are somewhere in it. He regarded Dad's Army as a documentary...

Oh and he was built like a brick shithouse. He was a local champion boxer and fought Rocky Marciano, who at the time was stationed here in the US Army. The problem was that it was a bar fight...

Smith Guns have to be one of the coolest weapons of the war.

Jeremy wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:16 am Smith Guns have to be one of the coolest weapons of the war.

Yeah, I was surprised to see them still in use in 1944, but I suppose they just never got replaced. Unfortunately the work computer won't let me look at YouTube, but I'll try to find that film tonight if nobody finds it via google before then.

Yank BAR bipods were an unnecessarily hefty piece of kit which only added to the weight, and for reasons which beggar belief clamped onto the barrel, buggering your accuracy.
The European-built models managed to put a dinky little lightweight bipod on the gas tube.

The UK kept all the US-supplied .30-06 calibre kit for home defence because they didnt want two rifle-calibre supply chains running to the fronts, duplicating work and raising the possibility of supply fuck-
ups.