The Loose Association of Wargamers

ochoin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:45 am Thanks, Paul.

I figure that any canny foot soldier would look at the pretty well armoured rider & the armourless horse & know which is the better target.

donald

I suspect that he'd be trying to avoid being trampled. Outside of a skirmish, it won't be one horse and rider but lines of them, providing mutual support. Having stood in front of a re-enactment group of ALH on Walers, trotting slowly down the road (as a parade marshall, I was meant to be there!), I made damn sure to get out of the way pronto once they got within 20 feet. They're big!


A few more than I was in front of, but even more intimidating.

garyp wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:20 am

Jeremy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:36 am Or a plastic bag. Or seeing their own reflection in water. Being married to someone who was riding horses before she could walk, I’ve realised horses are not the brightest, nor bravest of animals.

So true. They are, however, just about the most expensive of animals. Particularly since there seems to be a fashion thing which requires that all horsey kit has to be replaced every 6 months because the latest 'in' colour has changed. If I spent as much on wargaming as I do supporting the horses I would have bought thousands of figures by now.
Oh wait . . . . . . .

Ah yes. And then their decision, for no rhyme or reason to do something stupid which ends up in a huge vets bill.

She also taught me never to walk closely behind one. Ever.

I can buy wargames stuff with impunity as it is impossible for me to buy toys to the value of a horses upkeep every month.

Etranger wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 4:14 am
I suspect that he'd be trying to avoid being trampled.

Indeed.
Lovely photo, that, BTW.

As Paul suggested, the cataphracts would probably have advanced at the trot & even partly armoured horses must have had their charging speed curtailed. Nonetheless, I can appreciate their awesome & terrifying effect on PBI. Evidently, (at least according to Phil Barker), the large, oval scutums & longer, heavier spears the legions & auxilliaries carried in Late Roman times, were a counter to the mounted enemies they met, in large numbers, amongst their German & Parthian/Sassanid opponents.

However, I think the horse archer, lightly or not armoured, must have been more worrying. Not much chance of coming to grips with a slippery customer who charges, fires & then scuttles away before contact.

Donald

Jeremy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:30 am
I can buy wargames stuff with impunity as it is impossible for me to buy toys to the value of a horses upkeep every month.

You're just not trying hard enough...

Somewhere out there, there is a long video that discusses medieval horses and their combat effectiveness. I can't remember the title now but basically, they are very hard to kill or bring down. The main problem with wounded horses is that distressed horses are less likely to respond to the bridle and that they often died of even light wounds later on.

Frontally, they are almost impossible to kill with a thrust from a bladed weapon because of the breast bone. Obviously wounds to other parts cause the horse distress but will not bring it down. Horses will run for miles dragging their guts behind them, with only three legs, etc.

Unarmoured horses are vulnerable to missilery, in that arrows sticking in them prevent muscles from working properly and cause pain, but don't believe that horses hit by arrows go down Hollywood style.

Horse armour was developed as much to keep horses safe as make them more efficient fighting machines: Horses, especially fully trained war horses, were very valuable. However, given that unarmoured horses are hard to bring down, imagine how hard a cataphracts horse must be to stop.

In short: Levels of protection, especially Vs missilery, matters. The problem is dealing with where horses are armoured. Possibly the easiest solution is to give horses a bonus 'shielded / in cover' value. Half armoured to front only. Fully armoured all round.

A gentleman who served in the Australian Light Horse, who had charged at Beersheba told me that his horse was struck by two MMG bullets. The animal died more than 5 minutes later when the horsemen were pursuing the broken Turks through the town. The vet determined that the animal had bled to death and that it was not unusual.

Now, a whaler was a very large horse, bred for aetobic exercise. Still, I wouldn't be spending five minutes running with two 7.92mm bullets in my body. I'd say that to obtain a mission kill you need to hit the man, although, an arrow or spear might mission kill a horse archer. Against a resolute spearman, only the heaviest barding will help, hitting a horse with a sword sounds like a shortcut to Valhalla.

We played a Dark Age campaign years ago and I had a huscarl who had a habit of taking down horsemen. We all agreed that a step aside and a Danish axe to the fore leg was a valid tactic.

Jeremy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 02, 2021 6:30 am I can buy wargames stuff with impunity as it is impossible for me to buy toys to the value of a horses upkeep every month.

"Impossible"? now, that sounds like a challenge...

I reckon if he starts shopping at forge world it would be quite possible

I would have thought a few "pro-painted" lots off eBay would do the trick.