The Loose Association of Wargamers

Spanner wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 9:57 am

RMD wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:36 am
The 'Galloper Guns' seen by Fred The Big at Zorndorf were almost certainly the regimental artillery assigned to Russian Dragoon, Horse Grenadier and 'New' Cuirassier Regiments.

There is also the example of Prince William of Schaumburg-Lippe forming two batteries of British 6pdrs into 'flying batteries' at Warburg; leading them forward 'at the gallop' and 'astonishing all who saw it'.

Here's the hi-res version of that David Morier painting of the Royal Artillery in the Low Countries during the 1740s. If you zoom in to that gun-team in the background (four horses in single file, pulling what appears to be a 6pdr), the driver has a long crop in his hand and appears to be sitting sideways on the gun-trail itself, rather than the limber. On the right of the picture you can see a civilian driver (in a grey coat) riding one of the draught-horses. It's also worth noting that the royal carriage in the foreground has a postillon riding one of the first pair of horses in the team.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ection.jpg

Thanks for that link, Mark. I hadn't seen that painting in a decent size and resolution before. The bloke riding the trail is a surprise. It's certainly not the most stable place from which to control the team (nor unlikely to be comfortable). Postillions on the lead carriage horse were an old convention. His job was to help control the team, if necessary, and to tell lesser people (ie those who didn't ride in carriages) to get out of the bloody way. He'd also go for help if the carriage broke down. Most carriage horses were warm bloods, not draught horses, as the carriages were much lighter than the gun and limber combo. Heavy carriages, like the really fugly one below, were basically town cars and rarely taken for long jaunts.

I feel that the Russians can claim to have invented the idea of mounted gunners, unless they in turn copied someone else (possibly the Swedes?), so I'm sceptical about claims that Fred2 "invented" horse artillery. He just further refined someone else's idea- and not very well, considering what happened to the batteries he raised. It's like Edison claiming to have invented the light globe- which would be news to Volta, Davy and Staite.

Spanner wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 9:57 am I feel that the Russians can claim to have invented the idea of mounted gunners, unless they in turn copied someone else (possibly the Swedes?), so I'm sceptical about claims that Fred2 "invented" horse artillery. He just further refined someone else's idea- and not very well, considering what happened to the batteries he raised. It's like Edison claiming to have invented the light globe- which would be news to Volta, Davy and Staite.

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:04 pm

Spanner wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 9:57 am I feel that the Russians can claim to have invented the idea of mounted gunners, unless they in turn copied someone else (possibly the Swedes?), so I'm sceptical about claims that Fred2 "invented" horse artillery. He just further refined someone else's idea- and not very well, considering what happened to the batteries he raised. It's like Edison claiming to have invented the light globe- which would be news to Volta, Davy and Staite.

What???? Not the Blessed Baptiste Gribeauval? You may just have incurred the displeasure of the equally Blessed Colonel Wiley P. Kiley!!!

RMD wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 6:36 am I agree, Fred The Big was definitely not the first to come up with the idea. As you say, even he admitted he got the idea form the Russkis. However, was he perhaps the first to mass horse-guns as a 'brigade' (battery)? The Russki concept was a mounted form of battalion guns; a pair assigned to each regiment, rather than a massed battery of five or more guns under independent command.

Re postillons; Were they not a 'thing', then? I'd always assumed that teams of horses would have at least one mounted postillon controlling them.

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:04 pm What???? Not the Blessed Baptiste Gribeauval? You may just have incurred the displeasure of the equally Blessed Colonel Wiley P. Kiley!!!

Spanner wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 1:37 pm *Disclaimer- Kiley and I are not friends. I feel Mark's opinion of him, expressed above, casts him in unbelievably favourable light.

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2024 5:18 pm Amen - testify, Brother Spanner!!!

Spanner wrote: ↑Thu May 30, 2024 1:33 pm I had one answer, from Jean-Louis, concerning the French army practices. The French were still using contractors until 1800, so the troops walked. The contractors did use a postillion for the gun teams, though, riding the on-side wheel horse, and all the horses had small saddles. He sent me a couple of nice images and I'm awaiting permission to reproduce them here.

Nothing on the Prussian, Austrian, Russian or British armies as yet.