The Loose Association of Wargamers

The Rooivalk, Ratel and G5 are all excellent pieces of kit

tim.w wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:31 pm I did think the photos in my book looked different to a Centurion but I understood it was an SA built tank along the same principals. That explains it. I'd guess SA had to home build a fair bit to get around sanctions and produce something decent. Armscor has made many weird and wonderful machines that you don't see anywhere else.

Got to have a good look at my Footsore Vikings that I didn't buy but invested in, very very nice they are too! Just started slapping a wet brush over the Saxons this evening.

Also remember with the Olifant development that one of the few countries still trading with SA was Israel, who also did improvements to Cents.

Jeremy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:35 pm The Rooivalk, Ratel and G5 are all excellent pieces of kit

Used to have a poster of a cross section illustration of a Ratel on my bedroom wall as a kid. I used to get Combat and Survival magazine when I was at school, have them all in the loft still, from issue 1-100. They are full of Bush War information, which was still fairly recent in the mid 80's. Lots of first hand accounts, which were always the back page articles.

Paul wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:55 pm The Oliphant 1A was developed and produced by the 'Oliphant Manufacturing Company', a private company formed specifically for the development of the tank.

Er yes, from existing Centurion Mk 3 & Mk 5s that they had in the inventory. They sold their 100 best Centurions to the Swiss and converted many of the rest into Olifants.

South Africa did not build any tanks from scratch. Ratels, Rooikats, Rhinos, Casspirs, etc, yes, but not tanks.

RMD wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:31 pm

Paul wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:55 pm The Oliphant 1A was developed and produced by the 'Oliphant Manufacturing Company', a private company formed specifically for the development of the tank.

Er yes, from existing Centurion Mk 3 & Mk 5s that they had in the inventory. They sold their 100 best Centurions to the Swiss and converted many of the rest into Olifants.

South Africa did not build any tanks from scratch. Ratels, Rooikats, Rhinos, Casspirs, etc, yes, but not tanks.

Obviously modified from Centurions, I wasn't questioning that, just clarifying the company responsible. At least, responsible until bought out by a succession of larger companies.
The Mk 5s had previously been used by Armscor in developing the Semel and Skokiann tanks. The Oliphant Mk1 was based on the Centurion Mk 3 (Although some Mk 5s might have been used. I've read conflicting bits and pieces on that, some suggesting that the earlier tanks and sales to the Swiss had used up all of those!). Jeremy wasn't totally wrong in thinking Armscor produced them as they were one of the partners who formed the separate and private OMC.

tim.w wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Jeremy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:35 pm The Rooivalk, Ratel and G5 are all excellent pieces of kit

Used to have a poster of a cross section illustration of a Ratel on my bedroom wall as a kid. I used to get Combat and Survival magazine when I was at school, have them all in the loft still, from issue 1-100. They are full of Bush War information, which was still fairly recent in the mid 80's. Lots of first hand accounts, which were always the back page articles.

My father in law was in 32nd Battalion (Three-two as its called) Recce during the Angolan War. Took part in the battle of Savate and innumerable other skirmishes. Spent two years in the bush. Those were a bunch of mad fekkers.

I used to employ a staff member who spent time in Koevoet. They used to collect the ears of the terr’s and wear them as necklaces.

The police still use Casper’s to this day. A couple of weeks ago, some rioters set one on fire a couple of hundred yards from my mother in laws smallholding.

Purple wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:06 pm Starting to look cute now.

Purple pavements! I did not think of that.

Looks extremely cute.

Jeremy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:21 am The police still use Casper’s to this day. A couple of weeks ago, some rioters set one on fire a couple of hundred yards from my mother in laws smallholding.

Even the British Army uses a variant of the Casspir these days - the front half of the vehicle is exactly the same as the old Casspir, but the rear half has a double-axle and a flatbed with a long robot arm for dealing with IEDs. I think the US Army has the same system.

Jeremy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:15 am

tim.w wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 11:04 pm

Jeremy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:35 pm The Rooivalk, Ratel and G5 are all excellent pieces of kit

Used to have a poster of a cross section illustration of a Ratel on my bedroom wall as a kid. I used to get Combat and Survival magazine when I was at school, have them all in the loft still, from issue 1-100. They are full of Bush War information, which was still fairly recent in the mid 80's. Lots of first hand accounts, which were always the back page articles.

My father in law was in 32nd Battalion (Three-two as its called) Recce during the Angolan War. Took part in the battle of Savate and innumerable other skirmishes. Spent two years in the bush. Those were a bunch of mad fekkers.

I used to employ a staff member who spent time in Koevoet. They used to collect the ears of the terr’s and wear them as necklaces.

My dentist was a Romeo-Mike (101 Bn) - army equivalent of the SAP Koevoet... He's an interesting character... Our conversations generally go along the lines of "Aargh!"
"Did that hurt?"
"Agh."
"I should bloody well think so, the way I stuck that in there..."