The Loose Association of Wargamers

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:34 am One of the interesting things about the cuckoo is how until the arrival of the Blackburn Ripon in 1934, RN torpedo bombers hardly advanced in terms of speed or load. Two generations of Blackburn replacements for the Cuckoo had modest increases in speed and squeezed a rear gunner in, but with little fundamental improvement. The swordfish, would have been a cracker of a WWI aircraft. A comment about the cuckoo says that, sans torpedo, it was fully aerobatic, so it would have been a hard target for fighters, particularly if escorted.

Hard to know whether to blame the designers or the authors of the very restrictive Admiralty/Air Ministry specifications. Blackburn in particular had a bad run, with design disasters such as the Roc, the (why) Botha and the Firebrand.

The Stringbag outlasted its planned successor, the Albacore.

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:38 am If they had sunk even one German battleship, the boost to inter war aviation would have been immense.

Billy Mitchell would like a word with you!

Etranger wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:35 am

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:10 am Some day, I'd love to do the air game, lino cut battleships and hordes of torpedo planes, again, hun fighters come up in dribs and drabs on cards or die rolls. The first time I heard of this I was hooked on the idea. Taranto 20 years earlier; wots not to loik?

Mind you, I'm weird like that, I have fantasised about Plan 1919. Still birth the stab in the back story by destroying German cities with tanks and artillery.

We want photos! Amongst other 1919 plans was one for an amphibious landing, either from the North Sea or even within the Baltic. It included tanks - WWI "funnies" amongst them.

And Glorious and Courageous acting in their true role as large monitors.

Gotterdammerung 1919, the complete destruction of the German State and its incorporation into Poland, Czechoslovakia, France, Denmark and the British Crown Colony of Hannover and Brandenburg. GW Spearhead, FAI and some decent WWI air rules.

Etranger wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:41 am

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:34 am One of the interesting things about the cuckoo is how until the arrival of the Blackburn Ripon in 1934, RN torpedo bombers hardly advanced in terms of speed or load. Two generations of Blackburn replacements for the Cuckoo had modest increases in speed and squeezed a rear gunner in, but with little fundamental improvement. The swordfish, would have been a cracker of a WWI aircraft. A comment about the cuckoo says that, sans torpedo, it was fully aerobatic, so it would have been a hard target for fighters, particularly if escorted.

Hard to know whether to blame the designers or the authors of the very restrictive Admiralty/Air Ministry specifications. Blackburn in particular had a bad run, with design disasters such as the Roc, the (why) Botha and the Firebrand.

The Stringbag outlasted its planned successor, the Albacore.

For the fleet torpedo bomber, the big change seems to have been going from 200-275 HP engines to over 400 HP. The Albacore was never a credible replacement for the Swordfish, it offered little advantage over its nominal predecessor and cost more. It's replacement, the Barracuda should have been re designed to take a napier sabre rather than a Merlin when its original engine was cancelled. The Brits really made some awful carrier aircraft, right up until the Buccaneer.

I have often wondered about a carrier battle in 1947 with the japs attacking UK and Dutch targets after the Brits met the Russians on the Rhine. Firebrands and Sea Furies vs the up market Jap stuff.

One of the oddities of British Carrier aircraft is the Seafire, which with its short range and narrow undercarriage, was not a great carrier plane. Except in the pacific where it was the top cover fighter the Americans requested for the carrier fleets!

1947 carriers are fun. DeHavillands Sea Vampires and Sea Hornets would both have been extremely useful. Sea Furies were arguably the best piston engined single seat fighter ever built and Spitefuls cures the seafire issues.

Did the spiteful have better forward visibility? I love the way the Americans tossed the Corsair at the Marines because they liked the visibility and handling characteristics of the Wildcat. The Brits got them and had never had it so good. Brown writes at length on the joys of putting a Seafire onto a carrier deck in fit condition to fly again. But, once up in the air, there was never a plane to match the old Mk V Spit. Handles like an angel and much better firepower than 6 MG.

I have a number of non US Allies V Japanese scenarios that I would love to play.

The full bubble canopy helped with visibility. Corsairs were superb but it took the fleet air arm to prove they were safe to land on a carrier. Also the later ones with the rocket racks added were even nastier on ground and ship attacks.

One of the strange and unsung planes was the firefly, which its crews loved as it was basically invulnerable and it could out dive anything without dive brakes.

Had the war lasted the americans were about to hamstring themselves for a while with f8fs, a temperamental plane whose undercarriage did not like heavy landings. They did have the wonderful f7f but that needed new designed carriers to fully appreciate it.

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:06 am One of the oddities of British Carrier aircraft is the Seafire, which with its short range and narrow undercarriage, was not a great carrier plane. Except in the pacific where it was the top cover fighter the Americans requested for the carrier fleets!

1947 carriers are fun. DeHavillands Sea Vampires and Sea Hornets would both have been extremely useful. Sea Furies were arguably the best piston engined single seat fighter ever built and Spitefuls cures the seafire issues.

Maybe the Westland Wyvern would have been available as well. I've loved that aircraft every sine I made up a Frog kit back in the early 70's. It was the first time I'd come across contra-rotating props.

Just about, if you fudge it slightly. Sadly much too early for a plane so ugly it is wonderful, the Sea Gannet.

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:38 am The full bubble canopy helped with visibility. Corsairs were superb but it took the fleet air arm to prove they were safe to land on a carrier. Also the later ones with the rocket racks added were even nastier on ground and ship attacks.

One of the strange and unsung planes was the firefly, which its crews loved as it was basically invulnerable and it could out dive anything without dive brakes.

Had the war lasted the americans were about to hamstring themselves for a while with f8fs, a temperamental plane whose undercarriage did not like heavy landings. They did have the wonderful f7f but that needed new designed carriers to fully appreciate it.

Ah, the Beercat, as the French called it. A whole lot of goodness, but a flaw for a carrier 'plane. Although they also had the marvellous SPAD (Skyraider) up their sleeve, which would have been available in 1946. At a time when aircraft were obsolescent every couple of years, it went on for 3 decades.