Polybian (mid-Republic) Roman infantry tactics

[Shahbahraz]

I am going to weigh in on this. Firstly, there are as many competing theories as to how ancient warfare worked as there are people writing about it. No-one actually knows how the Triple Acies worked, and the fact the Romans themselves abandoned it suggest it wasn't quite the battle winner. Secondly, there are a couple of theories about battle and the interaction between two opposing bodies of troops, was it a few champions after a missile exchange or a scrum with pointed weapons. (Don't mention Othismos). We do know there must have been pauses as it's impossible to envisage a passage of the lines if both front ranks are hacking away at each other.

Finally, there are recent re-appraisals of the numbers in Roman battles, and the numbers given by authors like Caesar simply aren't plausible for his opponents.

In terms of troop types, it's probably instructive to think about Gauls as less disciplined and often less well-armoured Romans, heavy infantry specialising in close combat with thrown and slashing weapons and a large body shield. There are plenty of descriptions of Gauls advancing in well ordered ranks and equally, of Romans charging without orders in an undisciplined manner. Celtic chariots were essentially battle taxis unlike the much heavier Eastern varieties, and would be zooming past for the warriors to hurl javelins from, rather than crashing into lines of Legionaries. Roman armies in Gaul also relied very heavily on their Gallic allies to provide cavalry to counter hostile cavalry.

I have played a lot of large battle ancients, with a variety of armies. FoG battles between Romans and Celts will be very 'samey' after a couple of games. Other rules will vary. For small actions, I will recommend 'Infamy' - which has enough localised variation such as the use of 'Fervour', Roman Drill and ambush to reflect small scale encounters.

[grizzlymc]

DCR
Except that, if one side is not exhausted yet, they can do great execution to the other as they pull back. Talking to men who fight with axes and spears, an axeman has a few minutes to chop up the spearman's shield before his strength gives out and he runs or dies. A spearman (or a gladius man) can last 4 or 5 times longer and keep formation.

I can see that a group (wargames unit) might spend themselves and break around the unit behind which advances fresh to hit the disordered and tired hastati in front. How much the fleeing unit washes round rather than interpenetrating would determine their good order and a morale test would determine if the routers shook them or not. I see barbarian recycling as a riskier and longer prospect than advancing blocks up to take the pressure off other blocks which then make a fighting retreat.

[ochoin]

FoG has a rule that mounted troops (only) can break off at the end of an inconclusive round of melee with infantry (only).
They move a full move away, facing & ready to charge in, if they wish, they next turn - where they may get Impact (charge) bonuses.

Hmmm. Maybe drilled infantry should be allowed this & here is where the exchange of lines could occur?

donald

[grizzlymc]

I would say that drilled infantry should only be allowed to do this for every alternate unit. So, you bring up your principes, engage, then next turn bring back the hastati.

The key to why is exhaustion and fear. You would only disengage to recover them, otherwise, keep killing the enemy.

Bear in mind that heavy infantry cannot move faster than their opponents. So the enemy would only not follow up because of the possibility of advancing into a killing box with hastati in front and principes on each side.

[Shahbahraz]

That's one of the theories, there's also a theory that the second row of the checkerboard advanced into the gaps between the front line maniples once the Velites withdrew. Another theory is the Roman open order for fighting allowed files to pass in between files till a coordinated shove allowed files to exchange. And there's about 40+ years of the Society of Ancients magazine (Slingshot) where it's been debated thousand times. As I said, no one knows.

There is good evidence to suggest that any unit pulling back, being pushed back, or withdrawing was simply a precursor to running. I would be very hesitant to allow a withdrawal by drilled infantry.

It's not so important in sets of rules that don't reflect exhaustion, gradual losses, weapon damage/loss and disorder in continuing combat. Or assume that both sides are performance degraded.

The most common way to reflect that we believe the Romans could perform line relief is to degrade their opponents after continued close combat, but assume Roman infantry were as effective, thanks to their system. Either that or simply allow units to exchange between front and second lines.

This would work for FoG if you can maintain reserves, as FoG allows unit degradation with markers. The same thing works for Infamy and other sets where unit degradation can be marked. Not for DBx or Impetus though. I haven't looked at TtS or similar, and other older sets I have virtually ignore it.

[DCRBrown]

G,

Re:

Except that, if one side is not exhausted yet, they can do great execution to the other as they pull back.

Not always. Lines of men do not always follow up a falling back enemy. There is a far greater inclination to stay put rather than follow up because:
a) you are knackered, (even if holding a shield wall);
b) no one has ordered you to advance (or just a few are moving up rather than the majority) and
c) you've just done your bit of bravery and you're not too keen to wade in and have another go, even if the enemy do look shaken.

Human instinct is that of self preservation and ancients were no different, bar the lone hero nutters/desperate for promotion types.

What's required is time to reorganise and follow up, it's not always spontaneous, though I appreciate at times it could be, but probably more with cavalry than infantry.

Continual hacking and slaying didn't happen regularly and instant follow ups didn't happen regularly.

Thus it's about developing combat system that can include these nuances, (including formal rank exchange as a command possibility), avoiding those wargames tropes that ancient combat was a continuous slogging match and avoiding turning Ancient combat into a simple dice rolling exercise. Well at least to try anyway!

DB

[DCRBrown]

G,

I see barbarian recycling as a riskier and longer prospect than advancing blocks up to take the pressure off other blocks which then make a fighting retreat.

Agreed.

DB

[grizzlymc]

I always picture romans operating like well trained riot police, who can retreat or advance one half step at a time using their shields to force the enemy back or keep them at bay. In PNG, retreat almost always results in the formation losing cohesion and being pursued. This will be the first time in the day that there are casualties in more than ones and twos. Even a knackered axeman will take advantage of the opportunity to get that prized souvenir, a severed head.

[DCRBrown]

G,

Re: well trained riot police

I've never encountered any

I think the point I'm trying to make is that there is a difference between falling back to regroup and retreating.

DB

[grizzlymc]

I've seen the full spectrum of riot police. To watch the pros regaining ground is quite something.

To fall back in a controlled fashion requires drill and a clear chain of command, otherwise it's fight till you drop or flee. Throughout history only extremely well drilled troops have been able to fall back in good order.

Hence my reference to riot police. Well trained riot police can keep their line straight rather than have part of it overwhelmed, by retreating. A line of cops just wearing the gear will break if their leaders try to retreat for any reason. You see them take a few steps back, the shield wall opens, a guy with a pickaxe handle gets inside, his mate helps him widen the gap, and like a dam wall, they fail at that point and wind up fleeing. A good crew will keep their line intact use their shields to tire out the enemy and lure the pickaxe handle men forward beyond the protective ranks of women and children. They wait till the pickaxe men get tired and regain the ground with a baton charge, forming up their line again back where they started.

Believe me, if there was no such thing as a well trained riot squad I wouldn't be typing this.