The Loose Association of Wargamers

ochoin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:01 pm

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:54 pm I see your pain, RMD, but I'm another of those with a flag 'thing'.

You can seek help, Iain. I would suggest a visit to FA.

donald

I feel certain, Donald, that with this, as with so many things, I am beyond help.

But I appreciate the thought.

Iain

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:14 am

ochoin wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:01 pm

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 8:54 pm I see your pain, RMD, but I'm another of those with a flag 'thing'.

You can seek help, Iain. I would suggest a visit to FA.

donald

I feel certain, Donald, that with this, as with so many things, I am beyond help.

But I appreciate the thought.

Iain

But you didn't ask what 'FA' stands for.

Field Artillery?
Fatty Acid?
Football Association?

No, the fourth note of the major scale in solfège. As in doh, re, me, so , fa...

I thought a bright tune would cheer you up.

donald


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvYarluqINA

or maybe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH669JbK_6Q

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:11 am RMD - Nice work on the birdies.

RMD - I agree, even in my world a flag for Jaegers is a bit of a stretch, and an odd choice to have a figure sculpted.

RMD - "All hussars to have pelisses slung over their shoulders".......... so very right.

Bro - cheers Bro.

LT - I often don't bother at all with drummers. They make the unit look messy and take up room on a base which would be better filled by a standard bearer.

I’m very disappointed with some of you

ochoin wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:58 am

But you didn't ask what 'FA' stands for.

Field Artillery?
Fatty Acid?
Football Association?

No, the fourth note of the major scale in solfège. As in doh, re, me, so , fa...

I thought a bright tune would cheer you up.

donald


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvYarluqINA

or maybe

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XH669JbK_6Q

I assumed 'Flags Anonymous'?

I don't know about the songs, but Dido has another fan. What a very lovely young lady.

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:30 pm I'm not convinced that the battalion or regimental flag did function as a battlefield rallying point. The thing would be difficult enough to see from any distance on a clear sunny day, let alone on a smoky battlefield when all about you people are losing their heads - figuratively and actually.

And, who runs towards the enemy looking for a rallying point? If this was the flag's purpose, surely it would need to be positioned some distance behind the unit when in action?

I suspect the flag indicates the units administrative position, from where orders can be received and disseminated.

My money is on the flag having nothing more than symbolic value to the men of the unit, such symbolism being less relevant to troops who already believe themselves to be elite.

An important function of standards in battle was keeping the line properly dressed - troops would dress on, or from, the colours to the outer flanks; it's the same reason you have French Napoleonic sergeants with a little fanion stuck into the end of their muskets (pause for ribald 3rd Form humour). Similarly, when moving forward in line, the direction of movement of the colours would indicate where the unit was headed. I have a sneaky feeling (but no more than that) that in Crown forces during the AWI, colours were mostly carried by the senior (ie right hand) battalion in a brigade, as this was the unit that the rest of the brigade would usually expect to form up on when coming into line. By the Napoleonic period you start coming across references to "regulating battalion" within a brigade - the battalion on which the rest of the brigade would "regulate" (ie form up); the identity of this unit might change, depending on which formation the brigade was to assume, or which formation it was to adopt - eg it could be one of the flanks if the unit was forming a line, or the central one if it was forming a column.

Another reason for elite units not needing flags was because they were smaller and easier to reform/rally.

That's roughly the direction of travel I was taking - with my comment on symbolism being perhaps a little off the rails.

It's interesting what you say about dressing on the centre, the centre being indicated by the flag. How does that cross over to a combined battalion where, for instance, the combined battalion isn't small?

An issue I have with a unit dressing and closing up the ranks to the centre of the battalion, is that it presupposes that the flanks are visible to each other. Also, it rather implies that there would be a constant shuffling from the flanks to the centre as casualties mount. How would the latter work if you've told off the files into platoon firings? Surely, it would make more sense for each tactical unit (company, platoon, division) to dress to its own centre? In that way the battalion would be able to cover the frontage it had been allocated.

As you can tell. These are random thoughts, possible only because I'm putting off painting the shed.

Iain

Also, if you dress on the wrong side you can get terrible headaches.

I thank the good Baron for his explanation.

In terms of SYW Prussian infantry unit strengths, Musketeer battalions (with flags) had a strength of 856.

The far smaller combined Grenadier battalions (no flag at all) were a measly 754 strong.

Hmmm, doesn't seem that different to me.........

cheers donald (yes, I'm being snarky. Apologies)

RMD wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:49 pm What the fack do you put on the pole if a particular troop type was never issued with any sort of standard?

One of my pals, a wily lawyer, has 3 Prussian standard bearers carrying French SYW infantry flags.

He places them on the table edge & brings them forward to his Commanding general's base when any of my French, as they sadly often do, cut & run. He finds this very amusing despite my trying to Queen Victoria him.

donald