The Loose Association of Wargamers

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:49 pm Pikemen were not used for skirmishing, as far as I can make out.

I suspect they were, but not with a pike. Rather in the same way as archers in the HYW were used, they were physically tough and well disciplined and therefore good for small scale actions. They just didnt use their predominant weapon, they used side arms.

levied troop wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:53 pm

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:49 pm Pikemen were not used for skirmishing, as far as I can make out.

I suspect they were, but not with a pike. Rather in the same way as archers in the HYW were used, they were physically tough and well disciplined and therefore good for small scale actions. They just didnt use their predominant weapon, they used side arms.

From what I've read (which is far from exhaustive) Swiss Pikeman were trained in individual 'fencing' with the Pike, but then the Swiss pike appears to have been rather shorter than the classic ECW example. I have seen some sources quoting 10ft which is only slightly more than the 9ft spears which were fairly common in Anglo Saxon armies. Having said that the Pikemen were still also equipped with swords and daggers.
I do seem to remember that, when holding the pike, the back most hand was also used to hold a dagger so that the pike could be quickly dropped.

levied troop wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:53 pm I suspect they were, but not with a pike. Rather in the same way as archers in the HYW were used, they were physically tough and well disciplined and therefore good for small scale actions. They just didnt use their predominant weapon, they used side arms.

By "side arms" do you mean swords and/or daggers, cut-down (ie "half") pikes, or firearms? It was not uncommon for ECW armies to carry excess muskets in the baggage train - would these have been issued to pikemen for, say, foraging expeditions? Also, when pikemen led an assault into a breach in a fortification, did they use full pikes or side arms? Despite pikemen being part of each infantry company, I can't actually see pikemen being used in company-sized engagements, not least because they would have been too small in number to perform their principal task of protecting the shot from horse.

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:46 pm I can't actually see pikemen being used in company-sized engagements, not least because they would have been too small in number to perform their principal task of protecting the shot from horse.

I think that's possibly an ECW centric view, certainly in other armies/periods pikes were used very offensively to break through lines.