The Loose Association of Wargamers

... and the loss of the Working Mens' Institutes and the Carnegie libraries, which produced many an autodidact in their day.

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:09 pm

RMD wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:00 pm Old Man Steptoe always spoke with that accent in Steptoe & Son.

All the more impressive, given that Brambell was an Irishman! And (in the TV series) a WW1 vet, despite having only been born in 1912!

I don't know how you feel, but the loss the chapel and the grammar school really screwed up Welsh society, IMO.

Yes indeed! I presume that he must have served with a lot of Londoners well enough to know the accent so well.

As a grammar school boy (the last one - it closed the day I left) I have to agree with that, as the grammar school system enabled families such as mine to lift themselves out of farm slavery (which is what the traditional rural Welsh system of 'hiring fairs' was). However, I suffered too many dull, dull, tedious, dull, dull, dull Sundays in chapel with my grandparents to ever find any time for organised religion as an adult. They were doubly dull on the days my English-speaking mum attended, as the minister would say everything TWICE - once in Welsh and again in English!

The hypocrisy of the chapelistas was also quite breathtaking. I remember being about 13 and there being a debate about the proposed end to Dry Sundays. Every man in the chapel knew that the afternoon 'prayer meeting' was held in the back room of the Angel Inn up the road, with 'refreshment provided for a small contribution', yet many of them voted against it... And then turned up at the Angel that afternoon... For years later with the cadets, I went to church parades occasionally 'because it was expected' and I even got baptised (properly - in a river) because it was what my grandparents wanted. But as I was suffering in intense boredom through a RAFA carol service a few years ago, I finally snapped and from that point forth turned down any and all requests for the cadets to attend church services unless the cadets wanted to go (none ever did).

Etranger wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:25 pm ... and the loss of the Working Mens' Institutes and the Carnegie libraries, which produced many an autodidact in their day.

My grandfather was born in Glasgow, he left school at 14 to feed his family when his father died. His teens were, get two buckets of water, work ten hours, study in the library. In 1945, he turned down an offer of one million pounds for his business in Rangoon.

When in the sixties he found me reading physics at the age of ten, he asked me where I learned all this stuff. I explained that I had read everything in the children's' section and had just gone to the section, he got tears in his eyes (rare for a weegie) and told me that all a man needs in the world was an inquiring mind, an adventurous spirit, and a good library.

Yep, the Carnegie libraries especially were a godsend. Not so much these days now they are mostly closed, and there is a culture that is actively anti-intellect. I used to live next to one as a small child, and they finally relented and gave me an adult reading card at age 9, as otherwise I borrowed my maximum two books and brought them back the same day, which messed up their system.

And it's amazing what you find buried in the recesses of your brain from random reading, like the other day my sister was installing a sundial and didn't know what the name was of the centre portion that casts the shadow, and I was able to dredge up 'gnomen'.

I was like that, borrowing from the adult section (de-gutter your minds) on a kids ticket with a knowing librarian. Then an adult ticket at 11 (once school was not next to the library).

i should have been a grammer school child, but was the first year of comprehensive intake, we sat 11+ just in case the system was not ready, so I know I passed it. Was a blessing, only ones in easy reach of where I lived were Church ones you needed a vicars letter to get into!

As a youngster we went to my local Branch Library in Ham every Saturday. It's where I borrowed a copy of Charge. I ended up working there in my gap year 75-76. I ordered the books so it ended with a lot of Wargame books.

My dad taught Librarianship at the old North London poly. Dave Ryan of Caliver Books was one of his students.

I remember finding a wonderful series of books on the war in the children's section of the library that got me hooked and started my love of history. Unlike the rest of you I suspect it was the other way round for me in that I was probably about 47 rather than 8

RMD wrote: ↑Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:35 pm

The hypocrisy of the chapelistas was also quite breathtaking. ...

Church of Wales was no better. My grandfather was a Church organist for many years. His career started off as an SP Bookies runner...

Well, when social pressure means everyone has to be at church/chapel, there will be those there that are unholy too.

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:31 am Well, when social pressure means everyone has to be at church/chapel, there will be those there that are unholy too.

It got worse, he became a Tax Inspector....