The Loose Association of Wargamers

Glad it amused.
The moniker refers to an obsession with the Western Desert and odd ex-French vehicles, not political beliefs.
Just trying to avoid pointless and unpleasant online arguments.
Neil

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:31 pm It was a response to those who say, But other people dealt in slavery, so why should the white western beneficiaries be the ones to feel bad.

But then of course, Britain was the country who put an end to the Atlantic slave trade for everyone and trading in slaves within Britain wasn't legal from the 11th century. When you have African leaders saying that they will "..do anything the British want except ending the slave trade." You cannot lay the blame firmly at one group of "beneficiaries".

Panzer21 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 3:52 pm I'm not sure what point you're making with the last sentence, unless it's in connection with the British Empire inventing them.....

Actually, that's another myth. They were first used by the Spanish authorities in Cuba since 1896, and called reconcentrados. There, they were observed by two British Army officers attached to the US forces as observers during the Spanish-American War (they were also used by US forces in the Phillipines in 1898-1900). Even the British camps' harshest critics at the time, referred to them as "refugee camps". The British camps eventually had shops, churches and even a public library in one case; initially, residence was largely voluntary and they had no fences around them until the "Bitter Enders" started massacring African villagers, at which point they were fenced in for their own protection (armed guards were drawn from the residents, not the Army). The British also used the presence of so many young(er) women in the camps to create and train the first nursing service in the Boer diaspora.

People are not nice. Some people are less nice than others. Then there's wargamers.....

Anyway, back on the 7YW (the main theatre, not the messy bits around the edges).

I still can't get motivated to paint the 376 figures left in the pile (yes, I keep a spreadsheet to shame myself). Apart from Barry Lyndon, does anyone know of a decent 1730-1774 (ie set in Europe) movie or DVD set that I can watch (and lie to myself that I'm seeking motivation)?

Paul wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 6:55 pm

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:31 pm It was a response to those who say, But other people dealt in slavery, so why should the white western beneficiaries be the ones to feel bad.

But then of course, Britain was the country who put an end to the Atlantic slave trade for everyone and trading in slaves within Britain wasn't legal from the 11th century. When you have African leaders saying that they will "..do anything the British want except ending the slave trade." You cannot lay the blame firmly at one group of "beneficiaries".

Bollocks. Britain ended anyone making money from the slave trade, just as the trade was dropping off. It took a further 24 years for slavery to be banned in the empire though....

And it was only illegal in England, officially from 1773 (rex vs somerset, look it up). Important timing, what did 9 major slave owners do 3 years later?

After this point, britain just enslaved populations where they were instead of moving them, cheaper.

Spanner wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:20 pm People are not nice. Some people are less nice than others. Then there's wargamers.....

Anyway, back on the 7YW (the main theatre, not the messy bits around the edges).

I still can't get motivated to paint the 376 figures left in the pile (yes, I keep a spreadsheet to shame myself). Apart from Barry Lyndon, does anyone know of a decent 1730-1774 (ie set in Europe) movie or DVD set that I can watch (and lie to myself that I'm seeking motivation)?

Hadik?

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt15299406/

Der grosse Konig? (just hold your nose on the origins)

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0034814/

Neil

Thanks, Neil. Hadik hasn't been released here, yet.

I remember seeing some of dGK years ago, possibly at CanCon. (Or it may have been another of the series that Gebühr did- B&W, in German with subtitles.) Amazon Oz have it and Fridericus so I'll order one of them in the next day or so. I can grab a couple of pegs from the clothesline to deal with Göbbels' stench.

PS While browsing I found this: Maria Theresa / Marie Terezie https://czechmovie.com/products/maria-t ... ie-terezie Hopefully it's more history and not much soap. Anyone seen it?

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:55 pm Bollocks. Britain ended anyone making money from the slave trade, just as the trade was dropping off. It took a further 24 years for slavery to be banned in the empire though....

And it was only illegal in England, officially from 1773 (rex vs somerset, look it up). Important timing, what did 9 major slave owners do 3 years later?

After this point, britain just enslaved populations where they were instead of moving them, cheaper.

Britain stopped the transatlantic slave trade and formed the West India squadron in 1807 to stop others from carrying it out. The squadron was manned by volunteers and many freed slaves and Africans, who made up about a third of it's numbers.

In the 11th Century King William made the trade of slaves within England effectively illegal by enacting laws, after the conquest, that anyone doing it would be heavily fined. Then in 1102 the Church Issued a proclamation, following a synod (ie. the law making organisation of the Church) adopting canons against simony, clerical marriage and slavery. This meant that in England the slave trade was effectively outlawed by the two most powerful organisations in the realm, Church and State.
Because of this the slave trade didn't operate within England after this point and despite making up around 10% of the peasantry prior to the conquest by around 1125 slaves were virtually non existent in England.

I am very well aware of the single case you cite(Although it wasn't Rex vs Somerset, it was actually Somerset vs Stewart and was heard in 1772 with the verdict given on June the 22nd) but there are others. Granville Sharp in particular was very active in this and was consulted in the Somerset case due to his success in gaining the freedom of Jonathan Strong, a Barbadian slave brought to England, a couple of years earlier. The basis of the rulings in these cases was the earlier outlawing of slavery by Church and State, specifically applied as meaning that once a slave set foot on English soil he became a free man and general notions of civil liberty. Legal precedents had also been recorded in 1569, 1587, 1696, 1701 and 1706. All outlined that men could not be bought and sold in England with one judgement in 1701 explicitly saying that "...as soon as a negro come into England he becomes free". One judge in 1569 saying that "The air of England was too pure to be breathed by slaves". In 1750, Baron Thompson in Galway v. Cadee stated that a slave became free on arrival in England, and in 1762, in the case of Shanley v. Harvey, Lord Chancellor Henley declared that as soon as a man sets foot on English ground he is free. So it's difficult to argue the legality of slavery within England after the Norman Conquest!

At this time the slave trade was very much booming too, throughout the eighteenth century the average number of slaves transported across the Atlantic per year was around 65000, in the nineteenth century this dropped to around 59000 a year but only because Britain had dropped out of the trade. If you eliminate Britain's involvement in both then it's very clear that the numbers of slaves traded by those countries still doing it were increasing, especially prior to 1815, despite the efforts of the West Africa Squadron and that, had Britain followed suit with everyone else and carried on the absolute figures would have risen substantially as well. Certainly not an indicator of a trade in decline.

Of course English/British businessmen benefitted heavily from the slave trade but it's always overlooked how much the country did to stop it even in the face of rising trade by other countries and how this movement rose out of the lack of an indigenous slave trade in England for centuries.

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:31 pm and Israel is currently creating one with political western support...

And there we have it. The circle is complete. Whether hard left or hard right, it's always the fault of the Jooz.

Cunt.

RMD wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:17 am

FreddBloggs wrote: ↑Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:31 pm and Israel is currently creating one with political western support...

And there we have it. The circle is complete. Whether hard left or hard right, it's always the fault of the Jooz.

Cunt.

Was that meant to read that you were signing yourself of as 'Cunt'??