The Loose Association of Wargamers

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:42 am Is that air support an RAF harrier?

Yes, the Danes lacked army air support, and so I believe if the balloon went up, they were expecting some ground attack support from NORTHAG. And I couldn't resist Centurions and Walker Bulldogs, though my conversions are fairly crude.

It's not the most brilliantly effective army, but the 80's Warpac plans were for second line East German troops to attack and occupy Denmark, so they would not have been fighting T64 with masses of support. I would have expected them to give a decent account of themselves before packing it in.

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:29 am Awesome!

I've just caught up with the Napoleonic game - also awesome. Love the battlefield plans.

E

Cheers EB!

If I've drawn the map for the scenario (I use Powerpoint) it's a piece of piss to move the symbols around and add arrows, etc. I think I'll do that a lot more in future.

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:13 pm

grizzlymc wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:42 am Is that air support an RAF harrier?

Yes, the Danes lacked army air support, and so I believe if the balloon went up, they were expecting some ground attack support from NORTHAG. And I couldn't resist Centurions and Walker Bulldogs, though my conversions are fairly crude.

It's not the most brilliantly effective army, but the 80's Warpac plans were for second line East German troops to attack and occupy Denmark, so they would not have been fighting T64 with masses of support. I would have expected them to give a decent account of themselves before packing it in.

Yes, the entire RDAF fast jet component was assigned to the Air component of NATO's Baltic Approaches Command (AIRBALTAP) and was primarily concerned with air defence and maritime strike. That said, I do have a Danish Draken and F-16, because I like to have some Danish air support over the table. Their helicopter arm was puny - a single squadron of unarmed Hughes 500s. They'd ordered a squadron of Fennec (TOW 2-armed Twin Squirrel), but they didn't arrive until 1990.

The German Marineflieger was also committed to AIRBALTAP, as were some Norwegian squadrons. Denmark itself was slated to be massively reinforced by the UK Mobile Force (Air, Sea & Land components), the USMC's 4th Marine Amphibious Bde (4 MAB) and associated USN/NATO Task Group, the US Army's 9th Infantry Division (which started the 80s as a light 'High Technology' division, but got steadily heavier as the 80s went on) and by a huge wave of USAF reinforcements from the US 9th & 12th Air Forces in the USA. 2 ATAF (NATO air forces in NORTHAG's area or operations) weren't really slated to support Schleswig-Holstein & Denmark.

At the start of the 80s the RDAF had two squadrons (727 & 730) of F-100D Super Sabres. These were replaced with F-16 1980-82.

There were two squadrons (723 & 726) of F-104G Starfighters. These were replaced by F-16 1984-1986.

That left them with one squadron (725) of F-35 Draken and a recce squadron (729) with RF-35 Draken. Around 20-24 jets per squadron.

The Luftwaffe had the 41st Close Support Wing in Schleswig-Holstein with two squadrons of Alpha-Jet (24 jets per squadron) and a recce squadron with RF-4G Phantom. There was also a squadron of Bo-105 PAH-1 anti-tank helicopters and another with Hueys, plus some Alouette II scouts.

The Marineflieger had two wings, each with 48x F-104G Starfighter. The 1st Wing replaced their Lawn-Darts with Tornado in 1982 and the 2nd Wing replaced them in 1986.

Thanks for that. When I collected these the intention was to strictly limit it to what I could feasibly put on a 6 x 4 table without 'wheel to wheel' syndrome, plus allowing room for manoeuvre, otherwise it can be a NATO turkey shoot, which isn't much fun for either side.. And I certainly believe a 1980s battlefield would look sparsely populated given the power of air and artillery.

For rules, incidentally, I also have the Force on Force, 'Cold War Gone Hot', which looks interesting, and of course there are still old favourites like WRG 1950-1985. I have glanced towards the Battlegroup series, but I haven't purchased, as it looks like it would be pricey to add all the necessary scenario supplements etc.

I do know some clever people have extended the Chain of Command rules up to Vietnam, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to the late 1980s, so that was another potential candidate, but it's kind of a step up in scale to a 15mm small battlegroup.

RMD wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:49 pm

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:29 am Awesome!

I've just caught up with the Napoleonic game - also awesome. Love the battlefield plans.

E

Cheers EB!

If I've drawn the map for the scenario (I use Powerpoint) it's a piece of piss to move the symbols around and add arrows, etc. I think I'll do that a lot more in future.

Powerpoint? Blimey! My wife might be able to show me how to do that.

Cheers. Very helpful.

E

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:57 pm

RMD wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:49 pm

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:29 am Awesome!

I've just caught up with the Napoleonic game - also awesome. Love the battlefield plans.

E

Cheers EB!

If I've drawn the map for the scenario (I use Powerpoint) it's a piece of piss to move the symbols around and add arrows, etc. I think I'll do that a lot more in future.

Powerpoint? Blimey! My wife might be able to show me how to do that.

Cheers. Very helpful.

E

There's a tutorial somewhere on the Fire & Fury site that taught me how to do it. Stand by...

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:57 pm

RMD wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:49 pm

Essex Boy wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:29 am Awesome!

I've just caught up with the Napoleonic game - also awesome. Love the battlefield plans.

E

Cheers EB!

If I've drawn the map for the scenario (I use Powerpoint) it's a piece of piss to move the symbols around and add arrows, etc. I think I'll do that a lot more in future.

Powerpoint? Blimey! My wife might be able to show me how to do that.

Cheers. Very helpful.

E

Here you go: It's more to do with how to do graphical orbats, but covers the bases for drawing stuff:

http://www.fireandfury.com/extra/powerpointob.shtml

The important bits are how to draw shapes and fill them, how to change the thickness and style of lines, how to group and ungroup things and how to make things come to the front of the page or go to the back.

I usually start by making a grid for scale. I'll then pretty it up by doing alternating red & black thick lines around the edge. Then when I draw stuff, I'll use the 'send to back' function so that it sits 'below' the grid. Have a go.

Very much obliged, RMD.

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:43 pm Thanks for that. When I collected these the intention was to strictly limit it to what I could feasibly put on a 6 x 4 table without 'wheel to wheel' syndrome, plus allowing room for manoeuvre, otherwise it can be a NATO turkey shoot, which isn't much fun for either side.. And I certainly believe a 1980s battlefield would look sparsely populated given the power of air and artillery.

For rules, incidentally, I also have the Force on Force, 'Cold War Gone Hot', which looks interesting, and of course there are still old favourites like WRG 1950-1985. I have glanced towards the Battlegroup series, but I haven't purchased, as it looks like it would be pricey to add all the necessary scenario supplements etc.

I do know some clever people have extended the Chain of Command rules up to Vietnam, and it wouldn't be much of a stretch to the late 1980s, so that was another potential candidate, but it's kind of a step up in scale to a 15mm small battlegroup.

Yes indeed. Most of my stuff (apart from the Warpac side) is 'almost a battlegroup', because I'd be pushed to fit a full battlegroup on the available frontage. I do like Schleswig-Holstein as a setting, though. There's the potential for a massive variety of kit and contingents on the NATO side, ranging from Danish Cents to US Abrams and everything in between. Likewise, on the opposite side there are a few Soviet spearhead formations, but after that it's all East Germans and Poles... And throw in Soviet and Polish Marines and Airborne, USMC and US Army 'High Technology' Light Infantry and it seems enormous fun... With a decent set of rules, that is...

That was pretty much my thinking too. A great variety of kit and force variety. I also wanted to get away from the bog-standard Fulda Gap encounters, with massed Soviet armour versus superior quality Western formations.

And I have a sentimental attachment to Centurions.

If you ever find the perfect rules for this scale of encounter.. let me know.