The Loose Association of Wargamers

Nah, I already have two of them... One is one more than enough, but I also have a Fat Billy the Butcher. In fact I drilled a rather large hole up him this morning and impaled him on a piece of wire for painting.

Strictly speaking both are not necessary in a small scale skirmish like most of the rules I currently play, but then, it's a kickstarter, and the figures are really really nice... so I think I pretty much got everything other than the Irish Piquets.

Buff Redux wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:01 pm I don't think that he has that bad. He invaded England, got as far as Derby, where he realised that things were actually worse than in Scotland so he went home.

Weak, entitled and indecisive. Militarily, you would say he had very little chance anyway, but vacillating between French, Irish and Scottish military advisers was never going to end well. A lot of deaths in a cause that never had enough active support, however many toasted over the water or drank to a mole.

I wonder whether the 1715 wasn't actually more feasible militarily. In 1745, with France fighting in continental Europe there simply wasn't enough support available, or no will to provide adequate support. Just a few romantics in the Ecossais and the Irish regiments. It makes you wonder if it would ever have been feasible to land a couple of regular French battalions at Leith.

It's the usual pattern - England (or in this case Great Britain) vs France, so the French stir up Scotland, promise aid that is never quite forthcoming in sufficient quantities, and sit back while the Scots mismanage the whole quixotic affair.

But it pulled cumberland and chunks of the british back from the continent, it was a win win for france.

Yep. That was the point I suspect, enough support to keep the British busy, not so much that it became embarrassing.

Anyway, the Flags of War figures are really lovely. Hopefully will post something about them as I get paint applied. But I have two platoons for Chain of Command 75% finished, so I'm trying to discipline myself to finish them first...

Buff Redux wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:01 pm I don't think that he has that bad. He invaded England, got as far as Derby, where he realised that things were actually worse than in Scotland so he went home.

Stopped by a toll bridge, so the story goes.....

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 2:25 pm A lot of deaths in a cause that never had enough active support, however many toasted over the water or drank to a mole.

I believe the Scots Guards got their knuckles rapped during Queen Victoria's reign for drinking that toast.

In 1998, I was holidaying in Ireland with the Baroness, and came across something that only an Irishman could have written. We went to the 1798 Bicentennial Exhibition at Collins Barracks in Dublin, and found a surprisingly even-handed account of the rebellion, acknowledging that the Crown (the opposition was referred to as the "popular" side) had a fair bit of support, including the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church, and large numbers of Catholics who had repossesed their lands following the repeal of the land-related parts of the Penal Laws in 1778. However, the final card in the sequence of relic cabinets gave the game away - it read: "In the end, the Popular side lost due to lack of support."

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 4:36 pm

Buff Redux wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:01 pm I don't think that he has that bad. He invaded England, got as far as Derby, where he realised that things were actually worse than in Scotland so he went home.

Stopped by a toll bridge, so the story goes.....

"We're not accepting that Scottish monopoly money here".

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 2:25 pm

Buff Redux wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 1:01 pm I don't think that he has that bad. He invaded England, got as far as Derby, where he realised that things were actually worse than in Scotland so he went home.

Weak, entitled and indecisive. Militarily, you would say he had very little chance anyway, but vacillating between French, Irish and Scottish military advisers was never going to end well.

He had a very good chance, but the spies in his camp "advised" him against a rapid advance from Derby and made him think that the Government Army was closer than they were.
King George had already packed his bags and had his family in a coach ready to flee and it was very possible that a battle in the likely place, to the north of London, against local forces would have seen a Jacobite victory.
However that was where the problems would have started.
It's unlikely he'd have had sufficient support in London, when he entered, and unless the French arrived quickly with support (Not going to happen) then the Jacobites would have found themselves "fixed" in London and facing a vastly superior Government army when it arrived.

I played through the '45 many times in 10mm over a decade or so using Christopher Duffy's books as the main reference, but also a few others including some near contemporary sources. 9/10 times the Jacobites captured London then got their posteriors royally kicked all over the place

BaronVonWreckedoften wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 4:45 pm

Shahbahraz wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 2:25 pm A lot of deaths in a cause that never had enough active support, however many toasted over the water or drank to a mole.

I believe the Scots Guards got their knuckles rapped during Queen Victoria's reign for drinking that toast.

In 1998, I was holidaying in Ireland with the Baroness, and came across something that only an Irishman could have written. We went to the 1798 Bicentennial Exhibition at Collins Barracks in Dublin, and found a surprisingly even-handed account of the rebellion, acknowledging that the Crown (the opposition was referred to as the "popular" side) had a fair bit of support, including the entire hierarchy of the Catholic Church, and large numbers of Catholics who had repossesed their lands following the repeal of the land-related parts of the Penal Laws in 1778. However, the final card in the sequence of relic cabinets gave the game away - it read: "In the end, the Popular side lost due to lack of support."

Something I've found curious about the Irish Rebellions is that the Welsh regiments (particularly the Pembrokeshire Fencibles and 'Ancient British' Fencibles) had an especially bad reputation for brutality and were absolutely hated by the locals. Yet when they went up to Scotland and especially Cumbria, the locals absolutely loved them and instances of civil disorder dropped to zero when they were garrisoned there, with thousands turning out to wave farewell when they marched out.

That is... odd, as in the days of linear battles it was considered a bad idea to camp or stand scots and welsh regiments next to each other.