Indian Pattern Wheeled Carriers [Thread Split from Painting Challenge]

[RMD]

Splitting this off from the Painting Challenge thread:

Two India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carriers, one of them converted to a mortar carrier (Flames of War):

I'm always confused as to whether these were the Indian equivalent of the bren carrier or not. Were they operated by the divisional recce troops (pretty sure the Central India Horse from 4th Inf Div had them), or by the individual infantry battalions (or both)?

Any used in Malaya in '42?

[RMD]

I'm always confused as to whether these were the Indian equivalent of the bren carrier or not. Were they operated by the divisional recce troops (pretty sure the Central India Horse from 4th Inf Div had them), or by the individual infantry battalions (or both)?

Any used in Malaya in '42?

The confusion is mainly one of nomenclature. They were developed from the Guy Wheeled Armoured Carrier design, which was very much like a Universal Carrier but using the Guy Armoured Car chassis. The India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier Mk I was essentially a carbon-copy of the Guy Carrier, though utilising imported CMP 15cwt chassis.

However, despite persistent rumours to the contrary, the India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier Mk I apparently never made it beyond the prototype stage and the Indian Cavalry had an urgent need for Light Recce Cars (LRCs), so the design was radically changed to the rear-engined Mk II that we know and love. However, it kept the 'Carrier' moniker, even though it was really an LRC.

Indian infantry battalions continued to use tracked Carriers in their Carrier Platoons. HOWEVER, the 7/10th Baluchis in Burma appear to have used Wheeled Carriers of some sort, as there is a very specific description of their Carrier Platoon using 'Wheeled Carriers' in concert with the tracked Universal Carriers of the 1st Glosters against a roadblock in Burma during the retreat of 1942. The account even includes a map showing the positions of KOd tracked and wheeled Carriers. It's entirely possible that the 7/10th Baluchis weren't alone in this. It's worth mentioning that this battalion was one of the very first to be 'Indianised' with Indian KCOs, so perhaps their equipment was 'Indianised' along with the officers?

All the Indian Cavalry Regts in North Africa, Italy and the Middle East used India Pattern Carriers to some degree, though they'd largely been relegated to supporting roles such as mortar carriers, command and OP vehicles by the time they got to Italy.

In Malaya the 3rd Cavalry arrived in Singapore with Mk II Wheeled Carriers and Marmon-Herrington Armoured Cars, but were immediately converted to infantry. The Australians then nicked the Wheeled Carriers, though I don't know offhand if they ever saw action in Malaya or even left Singapore.

In Burma they only India Pattern Carriers to make an appearance were Cavalry Mortar Carriers (of which there were two in each Armoured Car Squadron HQ), as VSO transport ('Punch' Cowan, GOC 17th Division had one as his personal mount) and for Engineer Recce (Bil Slim describes using an Indian Engineer Wheeled Carrier to conduct a personal recce).

I've seen pics of Mk III Carriers on patrol in Persia. These were a further development of the Mk II; adding an armoured roof and small Bren Gun turret.

Lastly, the Mk IV Carrier was a reversion to the original 'proper' Wheeled Carrier idea, being a development of the original Mk I. This was again very much like a wheeled Universal Carrier and was intended to be used in the same role. However, it doesn't appear to have seen service outside India before the war's end. It was used chiefly for internal security duties and they can be seen in footage of Gandhi's funeral. A load of them were exported to the Dutch East Indies for use by the KNIL.

[RMD]

They are very nice models RMD.

When I visited Tata Steel HQ in India a few years back they had a Tata made armoured car on display, don’t think it was used outside of India though ?

Wheeled Armoured Carriers were indeed built by Tata from imported CMP 15cwt 4x4 truck chassis.

[RMD]

Guy Wheeled Armoured Carrier (rear-quarter view):


India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier Mk II in Australian hands, Singapore:


India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier in Persia (either a Mk IIc or a Mk III, I'm not sure which):


India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier Mk IV:


India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier Mk IV:


India Pattern Wheeled Armoured Carrier Mk IV (in KNIL service, Dutch East Indies):

[Wg Cdr Luddite]

Fascinating stuff.

[RMD]

Just to add some detail re Mk II Carriers:

Mk II Mortar Carriers were field modifications and not an official type, so there was no mark number for them. However, they were common enough in Burma and Italy.

Mk IIa - Had a modified and strengthened chassis to accommodate larger tyres for better cross-country mobility, especially in desert terrain.

Mk IIb - Mk IIa with slightly thicker armour.

Mk IIc - A further modification, adding an armoured roof and small turret. The Mk III was based on the Mk IIc, but I've not seen any comparative pics to know what the differences were.

Mk II NZ Pattern - The Kiwis also built the Mk II Carrier and used them in the Pacific and in Korea, where they served as artillery OPs. This is an NZ Carrier in Korea:

[BaronVonWreckedoften]

Thanks very much for this, Mark. I must confess I just like the shape of the vehicle (and especially the one on the Perry website which has a crew of Sikhs) and want one on my table when I start my CoC Op Compass (Central India Horse) and Malaya (3rd Cavalry) set-ups.

Interestingly, each theatre had a battalion of 11th Sikh Regiment, and a Regular battalion of the Argyll & Sutherland.

Wasn't there also a Morris A/C that looked very similar to the IPWC, but with a turret on the right hand side of the compartment?

[Vintage Wargaming]

If you’re thinking of the Morris LRC (light reconnaissance car), I don’t think they look much the same.

[RMD]

This is the Morris LRC (originally designated as a 'Wheeled Tank'). They're sort of similar ish, in that they're rear-engined and have a long rear-end, but otherwise not very alike, tbh:

[Vintage Wargaming]

Always reminded me of a Beaverette in steroids.

I’ve always loved the Indian Pattern Carrier though