The problem of javelin re-supply: discus

[ochoin]

An issue I'd once have brought up on TMP but we now seem to have a greater number of learned members..... & possibly a greater numbers of not-so-learned members

I'm prepping my Newline Velites. They come open-handed with a rather nice javelin model that needs to be clamped & glued. I'm wondering about re-supply, as a single javelin would not necessarily last a long time (20 seconds?).

Some of my various Ancient plastic light infantry figures carry two javelins....so about 30 seconds? I'd imagine you could throw back anything chucked at you by the enemy but surely there was a re-supply system? In my not entirely complete reading on Ancient warfare, I can't think of any author mentioning the topic.

Nor do I know of any rule sets that address it. Having been immersed recently in the AZW, it's an issue that comes up with the Martini-Henry.

So, javelins. Please feel free to discus (such a good pun I used it twice).

donald

[Etranger]

When you put it like that....

Presumably there were extra javelins (arrows. slingshots etc) carried in the baggage train & various hangers-on available to bring them up to the fighters. That would presume a degree of logistics and organisation that some cultures eg the Romans would have found easier to develop than others. Otherwise participation in the active battle would likely to be relatively brief. (of course that may be accurate!)

[ochoin]

A skirmisher could of course carry quite a supply of sling shot & even arrows. The problem with carrying a bunch of 20? javelins is they're cumbersome. You'd have to lie them down to throw one. Hmmmm.

So, some slave carrying a re-supply to you would be a solution (I hope they got Danger Money). Alex. the Simply Marvellous surely had wagon loads of ammunition but, as you wrote, hard to imagine a lot of others being that organised.

donald

[grizzlymc]

I don't know to what degree it is cultural, but in PNG, a group of men will skirmish in front of the melee troops. They throw a short spear which is probably best known as a javelin. Each will carry a few and, when he throws, will lay down his spares. However, the idea of two skirmish lines filling the air with javelins like Wellingtonics troops shooting is not how they do it.

The two skirmish lines will stay just out of spear range (about a cricket pitch) of each other shouting and taunting, with much exposure of buttocks. Every so often a fellow more courageous than the rest will advance and throw a spear. Normally he will flash his arse before running back out of range before a clatter of spears land where he was. If he is a bit slow, there is mirth on both sides and the victim is taken off to the witch doctor (or the white geologist with a medical kit).

This can go on all day, with enemy spears being recovered and thrown back. Eventually someone gets bored and they close to fight, when the skirmishers take their place in the line. Sometimes they will stand back from the melee chucking spears over their mate's heads, but not always to avoid blue on blue.

[Essex Boy]

Two things spring immediately to mind........

Would you choose to have a chucking weapon which you couldn't afford to easily replace?

And

Maybe the people who make up the stuff about ancient warfare have got it wrong (+1 for Grizzles explanation)?

E

[RMD]

Are you talking about the SAM or the ATGM?

[grizzlymc]

The ATGM would sure make mincemeat of a testudo.

[Vintage Wargaming]

Where does the discus come in though? And shouldn’t you have included the hammer and the shot putt?

[grizzlymc]

I think you need to wait till Mr Polo returns from China for the shot putt. Discus would really ruin a hopilite's day.

I think the franks just sharpened one end of their hammer. I am surprised that the Scots never tried massed caber tossing.

[BaronVonWreckedoften]

Every so often a fellow more courageous than the rest will advance and throw a spear. Normally he will flash his arse before running back out of range before a clatter of spears land where he was. If he is a bit slow, there is mirth on both sides and the victim is taken off to the witch doctor (or the white geologist with a medical kit).

This can go on all day, with enemy spears being recovered and thrown back.

Presumably whoever draws the short straw gets to retrieve the ones forcibly - but hilariously - implanted in "courageous but slow" guy's buttocks?