What is this (L. Roman)?

[ochoin]

I bought a bargain bunch of Tumbling Dice Late Roman infantry over 100 figures from the Good Iain (aka 'Essex Boy).

They come as Legionaries, Auxiliaries & archers (in order, left to right in the photo:)


The figures are pretty good & match my existing Italeri & Newline L. Roman infantry well.

The latter two categories are easy - the standard embroided tunic.
The legionaries less so. There is some sort of chest protection & pteruges around waist & arms modelled. What is this?

I'm wondering if this is supposed to be the leather armour that Phil Barker suggests - an idea now much disputed.
There is some talk of them wearing a muscle cuirass....this doesn't look like that and certainly not mail.

Any thoughts?

donald

[World2dave]

I'm confused. I've never known EB to have figures with actual...you know...detail on them.

[valleyboy]

He;s telling fibs, they cant be EB's figures as they don't have hexagonal bases

[Norman D. Landings]

I mean... it's obviously intended to be leather, isn't it?
Yes, the idea is out of favour now.
But these figures were sculpted back when the notion carried more weight.
The pic on the TD site certainly seems to have them painted up as leather.

[ochoin]

Iain has been a generous purveyor of second hand figures to me on several occasions. It would be both churlish & wrong to join in with the banter here. You chaps feel free to continue of course.


Leather: I found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB-KuNdWc4o

So, a distinct possibility. I think I can ignore the idea only disgraced units wore it. If it had some use, was lighter & more comfortable, I'm sure on occasion various units left their metal armour behind on the supply carts & wagons.

donald

[Norman D. Landings]

There is no way on earth that legionaries ever wore lorica musculata.
Quite apart from any other consideration...
It had to be made to measure.
Rank-&-file grunts getting individually tailored armour? Just no.

Also, expensive.
The entire point of segmented armour was that it was cheaper to manufacture than mail, and that was at a time when the empires economy was propped up by expansion and slave labour.
Fast forward a couple of centuries til the imperial economy is in a death spiral, and suddenly they can afford tailor-made plate for squaddies?

Also... plate cuirasses would LAST. Its a big chunk of metal. If there had been enough lorica musculata around to equip legions, there'd be plenty of surviving examples. There are no such things.

[Paul]

There is no way on earth that legionaries ever wore lorica musculata.
Quite apart from any other consideration...
It had to be made to measure.
Rank-&-file grunts getting individually tailored armour? Just no.

Also, expensive.
The entire point of segmented armour was that it was cheaper to manufacture than mail, and that was at a time when the empires economy was propped up by expansion and slave labour.
Fast forward a couple of centuries til the imperial economy is in a death spiral, and suddenly they can afford tailor-made plate for squaddies?

Also... plate cuirasses would LAST. Its a big chunk of metal. If there had been enough lorica musculata around to equip legions, there'd be plenty of surviving examples. There are no such things.

I'm not sure the "made to measure" thing is any more necessary than that required for say, mail armour. They weren't designed to replicate a wearers musculature just to make them look like they hit the "gym" twice a day and had the bodies of demi-gods.
Making them from boiled leather over a former would have been relatively quick and cheap. Certainly more so than producing mail which is a labour intensive activity. It could well be that what has been interpreted as metal armour from sculpture etc... would have been leather for the most part.

[BaronVonWreckedoften]

"Quid est hoc?"

[Norman D. Landings]

Face - and, as the kids say - palm.

Of course they're leather.
That was my whole point - see my first post.
In my second post, where I say they're not LM, I should have made it clearer: they're not METAL LM.

Making LM to measure had nothing to do with the wearer's musculature.
It's about things like torso length and enabling arm movement.

[Norman D. Landings]

Is that a quid a bottle or a quid a glass for hock, though?
Cos I'm all about the quality.