The Loose Association of Wargamers

Nicely done!

A very nice looking regiment.

That will teach you to ask us! Very nice figures.

I thought I might share with you my painting goals with reference to my SYW Prussian force.

Using Zvesda figures & a box of the HaT SYW Prussian Command, I want to create a balanced army by adding a Guard (elite) unit, 2 Garrison regiments (second rate) and a captured Saxon** grenadier battalion (also second rate) to my existing Prussian army.
My friend Mal has about the same number of Prussian units I currently have which makes for a good Show game or a home game (when he can attend) currently possible but my existing army is, by itself, rather lacking in numbers & in a balance of quality.

I’ve included the OOB I am aspiring to: I’m not there yet, being some 35 figures left to modify, assemble & paint for the final 3 units (which I'm painting in small groups, as the mood takes me). However, this force should provide a decent “garage game” for my much larger French SYW army. The force is perhaps deficient in cavalry & I'd like to add another dragoon regiment but there are no such figures without extensive modifications & the base figures are hard to acquire.

Donald


** as you undoubtedly know, Frederick’s army captured nearly the entire Saxon army, allied to Austria. He dressed the units in Prussian uniforms & forced them to fight for him. He gave the line “fusilier” caps but left the Grenadiers' mitres alone….though all but one battalion of Grenadiers melted away & were disbanded. The Saxons fought for him, but none too enthusiastically. In our rules, this means they march & manoeuvre & fire like the French & not like their “supermen” Prussian comrades.

OOB SYW PRUSSIANS

HQ
Frederich King of Prussia
Lieutenant General V Winterfeldt (Wing Commander)
Brigadier ensuite

Infantry Brigade #1
G-M Manteuffel + ADC
Von Treskow Musketeers (2 battalions) Line infantry
II LeibGarde Regiment (1 battalion) elite
+ battalion gun

Infantry Brigade #2
G-M V. Mayer +ADC
Pannewitz Musketeers (2 battalions) Line infantry
Von Kaunitz Musketeers (2 battalions) Line infantry

Grenadier Brigade
G-M V Oldenburg + ADC
1st Standing Grenadier battalion grenadier
9/10 Combined Grenadiers grenadier
37/40 Combined Grenadiers grenadier
2/G-II Manstein Combined Grenadiers grenadier

Cuirassier Brigade
G-M V Zeiten + ADC
Von Brandenburg Cuirassiers Cuirassiers
Prince Von Prussian cuirassiers Cuirassiers
Bayreuth Dragoons Dragoons


Cavalry Brigade
G-M V Geist + ADC
Von Seydlitz Hussars battle cavalry
Von Belling Hussars battle cavalry

Fusilier Brigade
G-M V Hagen
Von Kreytzen Fusiliers (2 battalions) Second Rate
Brandes Fusiliers (1 battalion) Second rate
Koller Grenadiers Second rate

Garrison Brigade
G-M Mollendorff +ADC
Garrison Regiment (3 battalions) Second rate

Frei Korps (Unattached light inf.)
Von Noble Frei Korps Light infantry
Von Kalben Frei Korps Light infantry
Von Kleist Jager Light infantry


Artillery
1 X Heavy battery
4 X Field batteries
1 X Field battery (Howitzer)
1 x Artillery Volante (horse artillery) battery


Please feel free to comment.I know that several of you are genuine experts in the period.

I'm not an expert but I'm interested to see this Donald as I'm building Prussian and Austrian armies
At this stage I have no light units in my Prussian armies and unsure what to do about this
In what way would lights be best represented?
My Prussian infantry battalions are generally single units of 24 figures as are the Grenadiers and cavalry 12 strong
How are you basing your Frei Korps? How strong?

I'm interested to see the units you've chosen for the OOB , why and how - I've picked mine on the basis of Ooh those look pretty, I'l paint those

Really not sure what to do about Autrian Grenadiers

VB, I used to build actual historical OOBs for my Nap. armies but unless you fight the same battle over & over, it's not accurate for other battles/campaigns. Now I just create generic armies & often use aesthetics as a guide...."that's enough infantry with red facings, how about some yellow?"

For unit sizes, roughly, grenadiers @ 16, Line & Garrison/Second Rate @ 20 & elite @ 20-24 figures. Size & quality determine the battlefield performance. Smallish but nippy Grenadier battalions are very capable fighters but the Garrison/Second Rate units can soak up punishment to a degree but don't fire or move well. The cavalry are anything from 10-24 figures per unit but this is largely irrelevant as they are used in 3 figure squadrons (which can be marshalled together to form larger "units" for a specific charge etc).

We've introduced a fairly strict system for recruitment so that there's no super-armies. eg both the French & my Prussians get but one elite battalion. Infantry are mostly Line & the inferior units must be in a 1:1 ratio to Grenadier units. This also very much applies to the Light infantry as when writing the rules, we didn't want the LI to dominate the battlefield in a Napoleonic fashion. So not too many & not too good is the mantra.

Apart from the limited number of LI units, we also handicapped them in terms of strength. LI battalions are only @ 8 figures with 2 on a base in a single line. Thus they can initially fire with a limited impact but on taking casualties, quickly become useless.

I have a small number of Austrians - not really enough to fight a battle. They have a Pandour unit that is @ 10 & who shoot a bit better to mirror their superior quality. If I ever build up the army, we'll see how this goes.

donald

VB, my understanding is that the Prussians were seriously lacking in light units and that the proliferation of 'Freikorps in their service was a not particularly successful attempt to remedy that. I'll take a look at Duffy to see what he says on the matter.

The strength of Freikorps units was all over the place, from single companies and troops up to 'brigade' sized all arms formations. FK von Kleist is probably the best documented but many are only sketch described.

As to basing, (in 15mm) the various LI formations (FK, pandours etc) are represented by 2-3 figures on a base, in a single line, regular infantry 4 figures in 2 rows on the same base.

For Austrian Grenadiers, I paint up 2 company's worth when I paint the parent unit. On the figure scale we use thst makes for a single base of 4, arranged as regular infantry. Three to four such bases make up a conjoined battalion. The figure scale is 1:50.

I would agree with ET about the often poor quality of the Prussian LI. After some thought, we decided the French versions should be exactly the same.....though perhaps not the Austrian or British (see above).

They were mostly used both before & after actual battle and several rule sets don't bother including them because of their limited battlefield ability. And, if they are totally useless, why would you bother to include them in a wargame?

We decided there were enough historical precedents to allow them a role. Thus, in most of our games, they have been not much more than an annoyance. In a few, though, they have had an impact. Firing from the relative safety of a wood or BUA into attacking cavalry or charging infantry is perhaps the best case scenario & where the few casualties inflicted might alter the balance of a future melee or a morale test.

Given they have no effect on anyone else's morale, you can use & abuse them at will.

donald

Pretty much how I use them, the annoyance factor can sometimes provoke a rash opponent into ill timed advances...

Etranger wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:25 pm Pretty much how I use them, the annoyance factor can sometimes provoke a rash opponent into ill timed advances...

It has. Unfortunately, I was the "rash opponent".

donald